WTF Community

Day 1388

1/ Biden defeated Trump to become the 46th president of the United States. The Associated Press and TV networks called Pennsylvania’s 20 electoral votes for Biden, putting him over the 270-vote threshold needed to win the Electoral College. Shortly after, Nevada was also called for Biden. “With the campaign over, it’s time to put the anger and the harsh rhetoric behind us and come together as a nation,” Biden said in the statement. “It’s time for America to unite. And to heal. We are the United States of America. And there’s nothing we can’t do, if we do it together.” Shortly before news organization called the race, Trump tweeted “I WON THIS ELECTION, BY A LOT!” Kamala Harris will become the nation’s first woman, first Asian American, and first Black vice president. Trump, meanwhile, is the first president since 1992 to fail to win a second term. Biden is expected to give his victory speech at 8 p.m. Saturday — a full five days after the last ballots were cast. (New York Times / Washington Post / Politico / NPR / Associated Press / Wall Street Journal / Los Angeles Times / USA Today / ABC News / NBC News / CNN)

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at

Oh gods this is beautiful.


The Washington Post: Biden plans immediate flurry of executive orders to reverse Trump policies

He will rejoin the Paris climate accords, according to those close to his campaign and commitments he has made in recent months, and he will reverse President Trump’s withdrawal from the World Health Organization. He will repeal the ban on immigration from many Muslim-majority countries, and he will reinstate the program allowing “dreamers,” who were brought to the United States illegally as children, to remain in the country, according to people familiar with his plans.

Although transitions of power can always include abrupt changes, the shift from Trump to Biden — from one president who sought to undermine established norms and institutions to another who has vowed to restore the established order — will be among the most startling in American history.

Biden’s top advisers have spent months quietly working on how best to implement his agenda, with hundreds of transition officials preparing to get to work inside various federal agencies. They have assembled a book filled with his campaign commitments to help guide their early decisions.

Biden is planning to set up a coronavirus task force on Monday, in recognition that the global pandemic will be the primary issue that he must confront. The task force, which could begin meeting within days, will be co-chaired by former surgeon general Vivek H. Murthy and David Kessler, a former Food and Drug Administration commissioner.

But there has also been a recognition of those around him that he may have to lean more on executive actions that he had once hoped. He can reorient various federal agencies and regulations, and he can adopt a different posture on the world stage.

But pushing major legislation through Congress could prove to be a challenge.


Nbc reporter Richard Engel giving us a heads up. :eyes:


Melania it seems is the one who may convince T to concede. And even Jared is asking too.

Trump is a lame, lame duck and all he is doing is now golfing daily, feeling victimized and clinging to his power and possibly his brand.

Move along little doggie…

CNN reporting

CNN reporting

Melania Trump among those telling Trump to accept the election loss

From CNN’s Kevin Bohn

First lady Melania Trump has joined the growing chorus of President Trump’s inner circle advising him the time has come for him to accept the loss, a source familiar with the conversations told CNN.

Though she has not publicly commented on the election, privately Melania Trump has weighed in with her opinion, this person said.

She has offered it, as she often does,” said the source.

Some context: Jared Kushner has approached the President about conceding the election. This morning Trump continued to tweet his opposition to Joe Biden’s win.


Fake headlines from the Washington TImes…Looks like the Trump group ‘planted’ these newspapers with saying President Gore…or it was just created in photoshop.

Seems like the desperate T campaign is trying to make a case for fraudulent matters.
So convoluted it is INSANE.

CNN reporter

Real Front Page

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I am neutral so please do not read into any of my questions because they are only there to try to understand what is happening and to sort out facts from opinions. I think on both sides facts are confused with opinions and Trump makes it easy because he exhausts everyone and few like him enough to look into his claims.

Most news reports who favored Biden automatically cited Trump as “falsely” claiming the election was not over without merit. Just saying “falsely” served to delegitimize the accusation as soon as it was said. If Trump believes the election was not legit, then does he not have the right and duty as our leader to go through appropriate American channels to state his case? For many of us he is obnoxious and hard to be around, making it even more important to be granted rights to expose perceived injustice through appropriate channels. If someone like Trump is allowed rights, then perhaps the common American is allowed them as well. Public opinion on the merit of his claims, especially those of the press, is not and should not get in the way of that.

I was following closely during the vote count especially that of Arizona, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Nevada and Georgia. “They” would not call North Carolina and Georgia for Trump when those two states sat for over a day saying 100% of the votes were counted on the “live election results boards.” I emailed the AP as I was frustrated since Trump sat with only 214 votes which reinforced Trumps loser status. None of the news sources who were covering the election made mention of it let alone gave any sort of explanation. Then suddenly they changed the %100 counted to a lower number. No other states that had 100% counted earlier in the week and called the winner found themselves with more ballots to count.

When the AP started calling, it was then too early to call because there were still enough ballots out there to push the state in either direction. When confronted for an explanation, they it was their personal belief that Trump did not have enough votes in those uncounted ballots without actually physically counting them. With the accusations flying and everything that had happened for the past year leading up to that moment, they could not take the time to wait for those few ballots to be physically counted. None of this makes sense to me. Again, I am neutral. I am just trying to figure out if something did go down and that all of us, no matter what affiliation, were victims here.

Also, there are some very respected and well established Republicans in office who feel that Trump is correct. Why are they not being taken seriously? I know that Trump’s unlikable demeanor is keeping him from being taken seriously, but why are these other Republicans not being listened to?

Also, who gives the right anyway for the press to call who won the election. If there is one thing that we have learned in this election is that the press is owned by opinionated people who slant the news and use the news as a powerful weapon for their own gain. The days of unbias news is long gone. It is used primarily for propaganda purposes. So why are we so trusting that they will give us unbiased election results?

Lastly, it is such a basic concept of propaganda to muddy the waters. Think about it. If enough lies about false conspiracies are taken as bait and swallowed up by truth seekers, then those people who planted them can come back and say that every one of the “conspiracies” are fake and dangerous. Conspiracies are not absent from our world. Just look at the shooting of JFT and the conspiracy theory that there was a lone shooter. It is now a known fact that this was actually true and covered up. The people who could see from the evidence that there was not a lone shooter were smart and not certainly not crazy. Shouldn’t we be more concerned about those who plant false conspiracies to dupe the public and find out the reason behind them trying to discredit those who have legitimate concerns?

Again, I am completely neutral. I think God is going to take care of things in his own time. In the meantime I will obey laws, pay taxes and avoid anarchy. But, I am just trying to learn real history here and trying to understand how people think. I am wondering if the relief of having Trump voted out isn’t causing enough fear of his return that people will turn a blind eye to possibly legitimate concerns.

Thank you for your time. If I have any facts wrong, I would appreciate correction so that I have the right understanding of things. I do apologize if I offended any reader as that is not what I intended.

Thanks for your viewpoint. In anything you read or hear, consider the source. There a facts piled on facts but not always the truth. I tend to trust big Main Stream Media because they pay attention to fact checking.

But I see your point, are we overlooking something with Trump that may be legitimate? My answer is that he 99% spins the “truth” his way, lies. If you used Fox network as his source for a lot of info, then it is not credible.

Anybody can get wrapped up in conspiracy…and we hope we have enough ‘crtical thinking’ to blast through it.

Peace to you…peace for this nation.

Lets hope we can believe what we are hearing from now on.


i cannot parse your point , are you are asking how to spot fake news?:

or (just one example) follow reporter Jane Lytvenenko, her literal job is factchecking and she’s damn good at it.

i don’t know if i’m interpreting your post incorrectly, but don’t both-sides the legitimacy of this election. we scraped by the fingernails of “free and fair” despite huge and obvious and well-documented voter suppression. i would agree that many things, including the media, need a big overhaul in our society but the election has been called by entities we have decided to collectively trust. anyone who feels called to sue for recounts go right ahead, waste all the time you need🤷🏻‍♀️


Thank you for the excellent article on How to Spot Fake News. It was really helpful.

I was not really asking how to spot fake news as I am getting pretty good at it but I am open to pointers like the article on that website and will use that website in the future.

No, I was just seeing if anyone felt the oddity that I felt through the election process and the vote counting. I just had an uneasy feeling that the whole process was scripted for drama purposes. I am not making any statements as to who, how or why…just that I felt like the public was played and emotions and tensions were stirred up to a breaking point on both sides for no reason. I wanted to see if anyone else felt that way. I have no facts to back this up, just a gut feeling.

There was so much emphasis on the “live board.” It was suppose to be updated on the election results throughout the day. I don’t know why for an entire day two states were shown to have counted 100% of the ballots and yet did not call the winner. The converse happened as well. The rule is that press does not call the winner of a state until the candidate achieves the majority vote. That was violated by the assumption of a win, not a valid count. This all happened with the final key deciding states when everyone and their dog just wanted this painful event over and done with.

Again, if I misinterpreted the figures on the live board and drew wrong conclusions, I am open to correction, always.

I am not vying for a recount as I want this process done and over as well. I am not saying that the vote was or was not fair to either side. I am not saying that the right man did no did not get elected. I am just asking if anyone felt played. I am also just making a point that Trump and his supporters do have the right to challenge things if they feel the election was not reflective of the country’s choice. The thought of that happening is exhausting. It most likely will happen. I am just hoping Biden supporters will honor his right to do it and not allow themselves to intensify the stressful situation by acting out in anger. The same with Trump supporters that if the court does not find merit in his evidence and throws his case out, I hope they will breath, stay calm and honor the court’s right to make that call.

With Covid and social distancing I found myself starving to mull thoughts over with others so I decided on a lark to post. It helps to let things out in order to process the election and move on. Thanks for reading my post and making comment on it. Much appreciated.

Thank you for your comment on my post. It is nice to know that someone read it and could see the point that I was making, namely even Trump might have a legitimate complaint. Unfortunately, some people have presented themselves to the world in such a negative fashion that they cannot cry foul that no one wants to listen to them even if they have a valid point. When one person stirs up that much trouble in an organization, no matter what valid ideas they have they make themselves a useless liability. Trump, as a business person, out of anybody has no excuse but to know that. So I was just making the point that he may have a point. However, what you said rings so true, with how he has acted these past four years he has only himself to blame if no one believes him.

I just think that everyone can learn from real history. In real history there are conspiracies that, if uncovered, could teach us a lot and help us to understand other people, other nations, and ourselves a lot better. I think more needs to be done to legitimize truth seekers. People seeking out truth in history should not be called conspiracy theorists and they should not be thrown out like the baby with the bath water. I do think that it is extremely important to expose false conspiracy theories and their perpetrators. The false conspiracy theories are elaborate and purposeful, and harmful if swallowed.

I agree, lets hope for truth from now on.


If anything, the press was actually exceedingly careful about calling things too early, though. Long past when, historically, states would be called, the press refused. Long past when people wanted them to call things, they refused.

I feel a major reason for that WAS Trump’s notorious dissembling, and the tendency of his followers to leap upon any mistake or error as if it was a purposeful act of disinformation, in a classic act of Republican both-sides-ism.

Neither Georgia nor North Carolina “sat for over a day at 100% of the vote.” I don’t know where you are getting this from, but it is not so. It wasn’t so then, isn’t now. Arizona, Nevada, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania also all sat at uncalled for far longer than normal. Fox News of all places called Arizona early, and then there was constant walking on eggs with Arizona and Nevada, concerns of whether they would swing one way or the other. Arizona still has not been called.

You keep stating you are neutral in this, but all of your points back Trump’s argument and ignore that there are also well-respected Republicans who have chastised Trump for his calls of fraud, for his cries to stop the vote count in states where he was ahead and keep it going in states where he was behind, and finally to concede once the course was inevitable. There IS news that is unbiased, a majority of it; again, your view here is one that is pushed by Republicans and Conservative Media, the idea that ALL sides are corrupt so choose YOUR side. I am not saying that any medium is 100% unbiased; the human condition prevents that from being a thing. But you CAN have news media that strives to be objective, to report the facts, and the idea that ALL news media is motivated purely by bias and propaganda is outlandish.

All sides are not the same. They truly are not. The most successful thing Trump did was teach people to distrust everything and everybody. I know people who were very anti-Trump who still bought into horrific lies told about Biden, and in speaking with them had to look up the things they’d been told and fact check them in real time. I’ve seen some liberal pundits I’ve learned to take with a grain of salt or less… but overall, the lion’s share of the lies, disinformation, and truly “fake news” has come from the right for some time, ramping up to truly abominable levels in recent years.

If you have doubts, there are reliable organizations which strive to vet news sources themselves. Even among different media groups, though, you’ll find variety; the New York Times, for instance, does great investigative work but its editorials can range a wide gammut; in general, the Editorials page is one to beware of, especially when “guest” writers are involved. I try to never rely on a single source; if I see a story, I look at who else is reporting on it and find out what I can. It pays to look far and wide, rather than get hyperfocused. I hope that helps.


You make great valid points.

Please let me clarify a couple of things. First, the states that I am talking about did sit with their vote count stating 100% counted for what I remembered over 24 hours. It was the map which I think all the sites had up from the AP. I kept going back and rechecking and rechecking. Finally I emailed the AP complaining about it and asked why they would have the count sitting at 100% and then not calling the vote. It is not something that I heard, it was something that I experienced. Things were so crazy that I even question myself about the date and time and the duration. But it is my belief that it was over 24 hours. For sure it spanned throughout the day and for sure it wasn’t until a night passed that it was changed to reflect less than 100%. The AP website should have my email to them as that documented it. They never responded back to me. So you can fact check if you want. You can take my word for it or dismiss my word because you don’t know me from Adam. But, it was not something that I heard from someone else. I am sorry that I did not make that clear enough in my post that it happened to me and not someone else that I heard about.

About the press calling early. Yes, in my opinion the AP called early. They called before the numbers should have allowed them to on certain states according to their map. Their explanation was that they could see by the mail in votes that they were mostly all for Biden backing the statement up by the fact that Trump had encouraged his supporters to not use mail in. Not all the press agreed with the AP. There were some of the press who refused to call those states and made posts on line saying exactly what I am saying. Again, I welcome you to fact check.

I completely agree that Trump was acting in an incredibly unprofessional manner and that he was disrespectful of the process and contributed greatly to the stress, chaos, and anxiety. I think that Biden handled himself with dignity and restraint. Please do not get me wrong, my posts were not to promote Trump. I truly am neutral. I really believe it is God’s job to clean up this mess we humans have gotten ourselves into. But in the meantime, I respect our country, realize that it exists because God lets it exist, and appreciate the privilege of living here.

I am neutral as far as Trump or Biden becoming president. I do recognize that well-respected Republicans are publicly shaming the President for his bad behavior and they should. Trump stirred up a lot of trouble and most of what he said was outrageous. But Trump was the obvious elephant in the middle of the room. Were there other sources out there making me feel played as well? Quieter sources that we don’t see because we are all focused on Trump.

As far as the media goes, I do believe that the media moguls pull the strings as far as how the general content slants. I do not believe that everyone in the media is corrupt. But I think that it is fairly apparent that the media is used for propaganda purposes and if one goes directly to source documents during and after WWII you will see that military intelligence has had a very long relationship with the media. The free press in the US theoretically should be unbias. I really do not want to choose the newspaper that I read based on if it will tell me what I want to hear. I want to know even the stuff that I don’t want to hear. I just want the facts, not opinion. I think most every fresh idealistic news person goes into that profession for this noble goal and I think most of them retire out still clinging to the same. However, I think in some organizations when the final product of the day is put together, there are powers within that shape content in a not so noble way. And, within any organization there can be those who look noble but can be bought for a more sinister cause. All this is not as obvious of a mind play to the public as that given by Trump, however. It is much more subtle but just as powerful. So that is another point I was trying to make.

As far as Biden goes, on the outside he has a calm, quiet demeanor. However, he comes from the same group of democrats that have a lot to hide. Like the Republicans they have dirt under their carpets as well. Yes, Trump taught us to not trust fake news. I believe that he and everyone else was played with the planting of fake conspiracy stories. Fake news would be more the propaganda that Trump complained about. The conspiracy is more of the stuff that Trump has promised to jail the past presidents and Hilary for if re-elected. How much he has on them that is true and how much is fake I have no idea .I do believe that there are real conspiracy out there. But the fake conspiracies when they are believed, acted upon and then found out to be untrue negates the validity of any true conspiracy out there in public opinion… So did this true and fake conspiracy phenomena play a hand in the drama that unfolded with the election? It drove Trumps campaign. If he had anything true on the Democrats, did that influence messages given to Biden’s followers as well? Were there powers on both sides sending out messages that resulted in a country divided, carrying guns, and preparing for violence whichever direction the vote went? I don’t know but I think the question should be asked.

As far as the election workers and overseers, I believe that they are honest and did their duty admirably. I think they went over and above in the most uncomfortable of circumstances. But remember, the election is computerized and much of the actual count is automated after cards are pulled out and authenticated. I think that the end numbers probably will all be very accurate. I guess it is the timing of the numbers being reported and put on that board caused so much tension that it made me wonder if it was on purpose for drama sake.

I agree, I like the New York Times investigative reporting.

I think this is my last post. I get way too wordy. Sorry. Thank you for your comments to my post. You helped me think about my questions in a different light. You sound really fair and unbiased towards both parties and just entertained my question posed. Peace and prosperity to you.

1 Like

No need to make this your last post @Mud , we like a good discussion here. Just make sure to post links to sources when you have thoughts about anything, this site as a whole is basically an archive of well-sourced documentation on each day since the mango mussolini got inaugurated, so even though we do talk about our experiences and personal perspectives we still ground that with – you guessed it lol – documentation.

What I don’t want this (or any thread) to turn into is a devolving back-n-forth on whataboutisms, both-sides-isms, etc. (I will start by closing this thread, hard stop, if that happens.) Conspiracies exist as a test of discernment, there are those that do cover uncomfortable truths and there are those which are just dangerous nonsense, and we will not hold space for that second type here, period.

So if you have things you’d like to discuss that you are not sure fall into the dangerous nonsense category, and you’d like to run it past us here in good faith, please do, just don’t forget documentation and source citing.

You can also reach out to me or any other moderator privately if you’d like to discuss anything in more detail.


Excellent. I am extremely happy with this site’s premise of backing up “facts” with credible documentation. I will definitely do that the next time I post a question or an idea. I appreciate your help. Thank you.


Trust me, we’re all wordy around here. My father always said I never said one word when ten would do.


A post was merged into an existing topic: The Latest – Monday, November 9