Trump v. New York Oral Argument
Chief Roberts
GENERAL, MY FIRST QUESTION GOES TO THE FIRST POINT YOU RAISED. WE EXPEDITED THIS CASE IN LIGHT OF THE DECEMBER 31 DEADLINE FOR THE SECRETARY TO TRANSMIT THE CENSUS TO THE PRESIDENT. IS THAT DATE STILL OPERATIVE? DO YOU STILL NEED A DECISION BY THAT DATE?
Solicitor General (for Trump)
PRESIDENTIAL MEMORANDUM DATA. THE DATA THE PRESIDENT REQUESTED TO POTENTIALLY BACK OUT ILLEGAL ALIENS FROM THE APPORTIONMENT BASE. CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: THE STANDING QUESTION, IF THE COURT DOES NOT INTERVENE NOW BEFORE THE SECRETARY TRANSMITS THE INFORMATION TO THE PRESIDENT, I DON’T KNOW WHEN THE COURT WOULD BE ABLE TO INTERVENE EVEN ALL THAT WOULD BE LEFT AFTER THAT TRANSMITTAL IS THE TRANSMITTAL BY THE PRESIDENT TO THE HOUSE. SO, IF THE INJURY CANNOT BE REDRESSED AT THIS POINT, WHEN COULD IT BE?
PRESIDENTIAL MEMORANDUM DATA. THE DATA THE PRESIDENT REQUESTED TO POTENTIALLY BACK OUT ILLEGAL ALIENS FROM THE APPORTIONMENT BASE. CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: THE STANDING QUESTION, IF THE COURT DOES NOT INTERVENE NOW BEFORE THE SECRETARY TRANSMITS THE INFORMATION TO THE PRESIDENT, I DON’T KNOW WHEN THE COURT WOULD BE ABLE TO INTERVENE EVEN ALL THAT WOULD BE LEFT AFTER THAT TRANSMITTAL IS THE TRANSMITTAL BY THE PRESIDENT TO THE HOUSE. SO, IF THE INJURY CANNOT BE REDRESSED AT THIS POINT, WHEN COULD IT BE?
back and forth General Solicitor with Justice Sotomayor asking how can you differentiate residents (anyone living in US) vs ICE, Illegal aliens, DACA etc
THEY ARE TRY TO GET THE CATEGORIES OF ILLEGAL ALIENS THAT YOU COULD IDENTIFY BASED ON THE RECORDS WE HAVE. FINAL ORDERS OF REMOVAL FOR INSTANCE, PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN REMOVED ARE FOUND AGAIN AND HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN ANY LAWFUL STATUS. IT IS NOT THAT WE CAN PICK UP EVERYONE. THEY WILL BE SOME UNDETECTED ILLEGAL ALIENS WHO WE ARE NOT ATTENDING TO SCREEN FOR BECAUSE THEY WOULD NOT BE PICKED UP ANY RECORD. IT IS THE CATEGORIES THAT WOULD BE SHOWN BY SOME SORT OF RECORD WE HAVE. THE QUESTION IS HOW FEASIBLE IT WILL BE TO CAPTURE LARGE NUMBERS WITHIN THOSE CATEGORIES. UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON’T KNOW AT THIS POINT. IT IS A FEATURE NOT OF THE GOVERNMENT’S CONDUCT, BUT A FEATURE OF THE FACT THAT APPELLEES BROUGHT A PRE-APPORTIONMENT CHALLENGE ON THE BASIS OF THIS INJURY THAT WAS ALWAYS GOING TO CEASE IN THE PAST – CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR? JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR: MR. WALL, AS I UNDERSTAND READING THE PRESIDENT’S MEMO, HE SAYS HE INTENDS TO EXCLUDE EVERY ALIEN WHO DOES NOT HAVE PERMISSION TO BE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. YES, HE LIMITS THIS TO WHERE IT IS FEASIBLE TO IDENTIFY THAT. BUT RIGHT NOW, HIS POLICY IS, IF I CAN IDENTIFY THEM, NO MATTER WHAT THE REASON IS FOR THEM BEING AN ILLEGAL ALIEN, I WILL EXCLUDE THEM FROM THE CENSUS. FOLLOWING UP ON JUSTICE ALITO’S QUESTION, AREN’T THOSE THE VERY CATEGORIES THAT YOU ALREADY SAY WE HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT SOME OF THEM IN ICE WILL COME BY DECEMBER 31, AND THEN BY JANUARY 11, THE CENSUS BUREAU SAYS IT INTENDS TO PROVIDE THE PRESIDENT WITH THE INFORMATION "NECESSARY TO FULLY IMPLEMENT THE PRESIDENTIAL MEMORANDUM." I AM QUOTING THE CENSUS BUREAU. SO, IF I TAKE THAT AT ITS FACE, IT MEANS THAT THE NUMBER IS NOT GOING TO BE 60,000. THE NUMBER INTENDED IS SUBSTANTIALLY LARGE. AND I THINK THAT WAS JUSTICE ALITO’S POINT, WHICH IS THE CENSUS BUREAU HAS BEEN COLLECTING DATA ABOUT UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS FROM OTHER AGENCIES FOR OVER A YEAR. I DON’T SEE HOW YOU CAN REPRESENT TO US THAT YOU DON’T THINK IT WILL BE A SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER.
THREE QUICK POINTS. FIRST, I DON’T THINK THAT IS ACTUALLY AN ACCURATE STATEMENT AS A MEMORANDUM. YOU ARE RIGHT THAT IS THE POLICY BUT THERE ARE TWO BUILT-IN LIMITATIONS. ONE IS WHETHER IT IS FEASIBLE AND THE SECOND IS IF THE PRESIDENT DECIDES HE HAS THE LEGAL DISCRETION TO EXCLUDE THESE SUBSETS PAYMENT SUBSETS MAY HAVE DIFFERENT LEGAL ANALYSIS DEPENDING ON THE TIES THEY HAVE OR THE TYPE OF STATUS THEY HAVE. JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR: MR. WALL, I AM A LITTLE BIT QUESTIONING OF THAT FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS. THE CENSUS BUREAU ALREADY DEFINES WHAT RESIDENCY IS. WHERE YOU ARE LIVING, AS A SNAPSHOT OF APRIL 1, 2020. WHETHER YOU ARE IN A PRISON, IN ICE DETENTION, WE ARE TOLD BY ONE OF OUR PEOPLE THAT 50% PEOPLE IN THE TENSION WILL EVENTUALLY BE RELEASED IN THE UNITED STATES EITHER THROUGH ASYLUM OR ANOTHER MECHANISM. SO I’M NOT SURE HOW YOU CAN IDENTIFY ANY CLASS OF IMMIGRANTS THAT IS NOT LIVING HERE AND IS TRADITIONAL SETTING. THIS IS WHERE THEY ARE, THIS IS WHERE THEY WERE UNABLE FIRST – ON APRIL 1, AND WHERE THEY INTEND TO STAY IF THEY CAN DO IT.