🔍 All things Mueller - What we know he has on Trump 'n Co

dragonfly9 · January 10, 2019, 5:04am

Like all of us, I check around the web for a deeper understanding of the Mueller Probe and trying to pull pieces together.

I check twitter for breaking news, and also the main sources - NYT, WaPo, WSJ (headlines), Bloomberg, Business Insider, Politico, Axios, CNN, MSNBC etc. I also browse Committee to Investigate Russia (Rob Reiner’s pursuit of this complex investigation), as well as Marcy Wheeler’s Emptywheel.net.

I mention Marcy because while she is considered a well regarded National Security blogger, she found herself in the position of knowing information about some of the informants/leads that Steele may have used. I plugged her in July, 2018 Day 545 Marcy Wheeler mention See WaPo’s profile of her below which describes how she did testify for Mueller about this probe.

In today’s excerpt, she goes especially deep into connecting the whys and wherefore’s relating to how Deripaska could have been informing Steele via another known Steele informant Millian…she posts a picture of the two of them. And how Manafort is woven into the story as well.

It is just interesting to note and see dissected what various connections maybe behind the scenes and she rounds out the story in a plausible fashion.

Read thru some of this…and @Keaton_James and @Pet_Proletariat weigh in on this too if you see some EYE-POPPING news which I am not highlighting.

I was critiqued for having used some news sources that were looked down upon here, but I think we now have a lot of verifiable facts to lead us to some conclusions. The big news yesterday of Manafort giving polling data to the two Ukrainians (Lyovochkin/Akhmetov) was as big as it gets.

The time MAY be near that Mueller may be near to the end…(Rod Rosenstein said he would leave when the Mueller Investigation is done, updated tonight via NBC) NBC Rosenstein’s departure 1.9.19

Read on…perhaps some revealing points made here.

Consider the timeline of some key events below.

It shows that the email hacks paralleled Manafort’s increased responsibility on the campaign.

But even as Russia’s operation to release dirt on Hillary was proceeding (and Russians were reaching out to George Papadopoulos to dangle emails as well), Michael Cohen was negotiating a Trump Tower deal, via Felix Sater, which was premised on a meeting between him — and then later, Trump — and Vladimir Putin. On June 9 — the same day that Don Jr told Aras Agalarov’s representatives that the Trumps would revisit sanctions if Trump was elected — Cohen even started to book his travel for that meeting. He canceled those plans, however, on the same day Russia’s role in hacking the DNC became public.

But two key figures in the operation did meet at the St. Petersburg Forum: Deripaska and Millian. And Millian would pick up the Trump Tower deal after the RNC Convention, laundering it, at that point, through a junior staffer who had proven to be a useful go-between for the Russians.

We don’t know whether Deripaska, whom Steele was pitching as a viable partner to counter Russian organized crime, was a source for Steele’s dossier. We do know that Manafort is the one who pushed Trump to discredit the Russian investigation by attacking the dossier.

Timeline

January 12, 2016: Steele writes Bruce Ohr to say Oleg Deripaska may obtain a visa for later that year

January 20: Michael Cohen speaks with Dmitry Peskov’s personal assistant for 20 minutes about Trump Tower deal

January 21: Putin’s office contacts Felix Sater about Trump Tower deal

February 21: Steele sends Ohr Orbis reporting claiming Deripaska was not a tool of the Kremlin

February 29: Manafort drafts proposal to work for “free” for Trump

March 19: GRU hacks John Podesta

March 29: After the intervention of Roger Stone and Tom Barrack, Manafort joins the Trump campaign, initially only as Convention Chair

April: Manafort asks Kilimnik,”How do we use to get whole?”

April 18: GRU hacks into DNC via DCCC

April 26: George Papadopoulos learns Russians are offering election assistance in form of leaked emails

April 27: In first foreign policy speech Papadopoulos includes signal to Russians to meet

May 4: Cohen tells Sater he’ll do a trip to Russia before the Convention; Trump will do one after

May 5: Sater passes on Peskov invite to Cohen to attend St. Petersburg Forum to meet Putin or Medvedev

May 19: Manafort formally named campaign chair

May 21: Manafort forwards request for Trump meeting to Rick Gates, warning against sending a signal

June 3: Rob Golstone starts arranging meeting with Don Jr.

June 7: Manafort meets with Trump and Trump announces he’ll have an announcement about Hillary

June 8: GRU releases first emails via dcleaks

June 9: Trump Tower meeting presents dirt for sanctions relief; Cohen makes plans for trip to St. Petersburg Forum

June 14: WaPo reveals Russia hacked DNC; Cohen cancels plan for St. Petersburg trip

June 15: Guccifer 2.0 created

June 16-19: St. Petersburg forum (Putin does attend)

June 20: First Steele report, allegedly relying on Millian as one source

July 7: Manafort tells Kilimnik he’s willing to provide Deripaska private briefings; Ohr call with Steele about Deripaska

Week of July 15: Trump campaign prevents change making platform more belligerent to Ukraine

July 21: Sater visits Trump Tower

July 22: George Papadopoulos asks Ivan Timofeev to help prep for a meeting with Sergei Millian; Millian would eventually pitch Papadopoulos on Trump Tower Moscow deal

August 3: Manafort and Kilimnik meet in New York

August 17: Manafort fired from campaign

August: Manafort and Tom Barrack take boat trip, meet Kilimnik

October 18: Steele and Ohr discuss dispute between Ukraine and RUSAL

January 11 or 12, 2017: Manafort contacts Reince Priebus to tell him how to use the Steele dossier to discredit Russian investigation (remember, Manafort insists he didn’t lie about meeting with Trump officials, because those meetings happened before inauguration)

January 27: Papadopoulos agrees to meet FBI without a lawyer, in part in hopes of sustaining possibility of a job with Trump Admin and possibly a deal with Millian

January or February 2017: Manafort meets Kilimnik in Madrid.

GracieC · January 10, 2019, 9:05pm

(If I could figure out how to quote a piece, I would)

Dragonfly, you mentioned that you were critiqued for using sources looked down here.

I wasn’t that person, but I have wondered how to expand the breadth of what I read without getting sucked into far right & far left sources. With so much false crap available, it’s hard to trust many sources.

So I appreciate (and remain skeptical) when others use “non standard” sources. I’ve also noticed that most of the posters here have read multiple sources before something is added. Thank you.

Pet_Proletariat · January 10, 2019, 10:06pm

Yes it’s fine to post from “non standard” sources if the material can be coraborated from other sources and the person posting includes those sources to prove their point. Hyperlink in text is fine or just post the links, doesn’t matter. The idea is to contribute something of value to further our conversation and understanding.

As moderators, we read everything that people post and it’s helpful to us if we don’t have track down random mystery stories from other random blogs. I would much rather spend my time just hanging out in this digital space with you guys than doing fact checks all day.

Maybe we should make a thread of the credible blogs out there such as emptywheel and lawfare? Some of these are seriously great resources.

dragonfly9 · January 10, 2019, 10:05pm

(Editing note - to make a quote…highlight the section you want, and above it will appear in grey box QUOTE. Click that and your lifted text will appear below in another box, and it indicates that you are replying to me- note that my name appears replying to you.)

I appreciate your commentary, and my reference to being critiqued was not necessarily a hugely horrible thing and I was fine with amending my post. I appreciate that @matt and @jamditis do their best to source pretty top drawer sources, those who do fact checking, and use many sources to corroborate their story.

My particular post was quoting a someone who is a lawyer but almost a self-apppointed authority on the whole Russian Investigation and who can posit certain arguments in sometimes a conspiratorial way. (His name is Seth Abramson and can be found on twitter @sethabramson, but I do not recommend him. He may be speaking some truth, but it is such a deep, detailed story, that it is hard to know where his assumptions are and where the truths lies.)

My post just presented what I usually read, and also referenced more theoretical sourcing, but I say that up front.

The lesson we may have to learn is to take everything with a grain of salt, and know that there are papers to sell, and positions which ‘preach to the choir.’ We just need to name our source, double check it is not waaaay off (see SNOPES) and add our commentary.

I liked what Obama said…we are all in our own “echo chamber” and listen/read for detail which supports our opinion. To the extent that we read what we are looking for would make us a bit limited in our world view, so getting other sources would be good. (I check Drudge headlines…look for their spin etc.)

You maybe interested in reading what some others like to look at…WTFJHT Independent Investigative Journalism

And what @matt says to look for WTFJHT - Matt’s take on spotting Fake news

GracieC · January 10, 2019, 10:38pm

Aha! Apparently my tablet doesn’t always see my finger, lol! You don’t want to know how long it took me to highlight anything. Thank you!

I gave up on Twitter after the person being Will McAvoy stopped & in protest to what they allow trump to get away with. And I spend a lot of time fact checking what my family members post on Facebook.

I plan to go read the links soon.

And to Pet_Proletariat, if I come across something to share, I’ll be sure to include the source. I like the idea of a thread with credible blogs or people to follow.

Keaton_James · January 11, 2019, 1:38am

Will Mueller connect the dots between the Trump Tower meeting and the Prevezon money laundering case?

Yes, I’m posting an article here today that dates from July, 2017! Why? Out of frustration that no one in the mainstream media, and I mean no one, seems to be making the connection between a letter sent to Jeff Sessions from the Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee a year and a half ago and the recent indictment of Natalia Veselnitskaya, the Kremlin-connected lawyer at the Trump Tower meeting.

Many of the headlines surrounding this indictment have explicitly stated that the case it involves (a charge of money laundering against a Russian company) is unrelated to the Trump Tower meeting. Hogwash. Some articles have hedged the “unrelated” assertion, by saying the money laundering case is not “directly related” to the Trump Tower meeting. Again, hogwash – because there is simply not enough publicly available information to make that claim.

The qualification the press should be making is this: “Currently it is not known if the money laundering case is directly related to the Trump Tower meeting.” In fact, the Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee believe that there may very well be a direct connection between the two. Back in July, 2017, they tried to get to the bottom of it, but the DOJ and Republicans who controlled the Judiciary committee rebuffed them.

From the July, 2017, Business Insider article:

Democratic members of the House Judiciary Committee sent a letter to Attorney General Jeff Sessions on Wednesday asking why the Department of Justice settled a major money-laundering case involving a real-estate company owned by the son of a powerful Russian government official whose lawyer met with Donald Trump Jr. last year. …

That attorney, Natalia Veselnitskaya, represents the family of Pyotr Katsyv, the former vice governor of the Moscow region, whose son, Denis, owns the real-estate company Prevezon. The DOJ had been investigating whether Prevezon laundered millions of dollars through New York City real estate when the case was unexpectedly settled two days before going to trial in May.

“Last summer, Donald Trump Jr. met with a Kremlin-connected attorney in an attempt to obtain information ‘that would incriminate Hillary,’” the Democrats wrote, citing the emails he published. "Earlier this year, on May 12, 2017, the Department of Justice made an abrupt decision to settle a money laundering case being handled by that same attorney in the Southern District of New York.

"We write with some concern that the two events may be connected — and that the Department may have settled the case at a loss for the United States in order to obscure the underlying facts."

In the same time frame that Veselnitskaya attended the Trump Tower meeting, she was also in a New York courtroom defending Prevezon (for confirmation see the Democrats’ letter that is reproduced in the article – it’s an eye-opener). It would not be a stretch if, during the meeting, Veselnitskaya either stated directly, or at least hinted, that if she provided dirt on Clinton, the Trump campaign could return the favor by quashing the case against her client were Trump to win the election.

Here are some other incriminating connections between the Prevezon money laundering case and the Trump Tower meeting, Trump campaign, Trump organization, or Trump administration – these aren’t proof of anything, but they do add weight to the argument that the Democrats, now in control of the House Judiciary Committee, should reopen their investigation into why the Prevezon case was suddenly swept under the carpet by the DOJ.

Preet Bharara was the U.S. Attorney aggressively prosecuting the Prevezon case. Trump fired him, thus clearing the way for the DOJ to settle the case (again, see the Democrats’ letter to confirm this and other points below, unless otherwise cited).
The settlement was, according Veselnitskaya, very favorable to Prevezon. Perhaps most importantly, though, the settlement meant that any further investigations into Prevezon’s money laundering activities were halted.
Prevezon was laundering the money through New York real estate. Hmmm… What prominent New York real estate tycoon do we know who 1) has sold a boat load of properties to Russians, 2) associates with money launderers, 3) won’t release his tax returns, etc.?
Deutsche Bank, fined for laundering Russian money through several countries, including Cyprus, provided $90 million in financing to Cyprus-based Prevezon. Deutsche Bank is also being scrutinized for its shady ties to Trump and Kushner. Big German Bank, Key to Trump’s Finances, Faces New Scrutiny, NYT.
When Trump Jr. appeared before the Senate Judiciary Committee he was asked the following about the Trump Tower meeting (p. 44): “Did Ms. Veselnitskaya or her colleagues ask that your father take any action regarding the Justice Department’s lawsuit against Prevezon Holdings if elected?” Trump Jr.'s response: “Not that I remember.” Maybe he genuinely couldn’t remember, but, to me, this seems like an evasive answer. If Veselnitskaya did make that request, it would have been a flagrant invitation to commit a crime (a quid pro quo proposed by a Russian to quash a U.S. Federal court case) so you’d think Trump Jr. could recall whether or not the request was actually made.
In May, 2016, shortly before the Trump Tower meeting, Aras Agalarov, set up a shell company in preparation for moving $20 million from Russia to the U.S. (Refresher: Agalarov is the Putin-connected oligarch who hosted Trump’s Miss Universe contest in Moscow. He initiated the Trump Tower meeting. He was also instrumental in the Trump Tower Moscow project.) The dubious shell company was created by Agalarov’s NY-based accountant, Ilya Bykov, who wheels and deals in the Manhattan real estate market on behalf of Russian clients. One of Bykov’s clients was Prevezon. As the Guardian article linked to above asserts: “Corporate filings to New York state regulators show that several of the Prevezon companies allegedly used for money laundering were registered to Bykov’s offices.” BTW, Bykov is a real piece of work and I’m betting he will eventually be indicted by Mueller or SDNY. Here’s my previous post on him. And here’s a deep dive into his links with Felix Sater, Prevezon’s money laundering schemes, and other characters in the “Russian laundromat.”
The final connection I’m covering here does not directly involve the Trump Tower meeting, but is a damning link between Prevezon, Michael Cohen (Trump’s former fixer), and Trump himself. Since Cohen is a cooperating (or at least semi-cooperating) witness, I’m sure Mueller has asked him if he facilitated any communications between Trump and Prevezon. If you’d like details on Cohen’s and Trump’s ties to Prevezon, see my previous post, but I’ll close with a couple photos from that entry which are worth at least a couple thousand words:

Above: Michael Cohen hanging with Rotem Rosen (blue jacket). Cohen is a close friend of Rosen, having worked with him on Trump real estate deals, including Trump Tower Moscow. Rosen is also the “right-hand man” of Lev Leviev who is a key partner in Prevezon.

At Miss Universe in Moscow: Rotem Rosen (he accompanied Trump on the trip), Aras Agalarov (he hosted the event and initiated the Trump Tower meeting), Trump, and Alex Sapir (he partnered with Rosen in negotiating the Trump Tower Moscow deal).

dragonfly9 · January 11, 2019, 2:04am

Good summary of yet another obstruction of justice scenario - that Prevezon could get off, early on in T’s administration IS baffling. THIS could be one of the cornerstone’s to Mueller’s strategy to indict T for obstruction of Justice, conspiracy to work with a foreign government, and act as a money-launderer for the Russians. Steve Bannon spelled it out immediately, in Wolfe’s book…T launders money for the Russians. TheHill Bannon on Russian probe and money laundering

But the very last people who have NOT been called in front of Mueller and could be indicted are T, Don JR and Jared Kushner (aside from Stone, Corsi). This makes me think that Mueller is going to throw the book at them…

Mueller just indicted Veselnitskaya…and she was involved in Preveson’s defense. He’s leveraged Vesetnitskaya now…and she’s been connected to the GRU and very close to the top Russian power. All the Oligarchs/Putin are looped into the Russian money-laundering scheme, and by offering a quid pro quo…Russia will help move the election, if you help us launder money via real estate. T will ease up on Russian sanctions, get the US out of NATO and destabilize the US’s position in the world.

From your mention of The Nation article

At the center of the story is the Russian lawyer and activist Natalia Veselnitskaya, who led the team that met with Don Jr., Kushner, and Manafort.

Seeing the pictures of all the Russian players that both T and Cohen were involved with is sickening.

Let’s hope Cohen can help prove how deeply T was involved in deeply illegal aspects of his pursuit for money and power.

dragonfly9 · January 11, 2019, 3:39am

Yup…Mueller has been digging deeply…for a long time. Meets with pollster Tony Fabrizio, who worked with T’s campaign and they talked with him last year.
More intriguing revelations…looking into the Ukrainian AND US elections angle. AND

Soon after Fabrizio spoke to Mueller’s team last year, Gates began cooperating.

Hmmmmmm

Special counsel Robert Mueller sought information directly last year from one of Donald Trump’s campaign pollsters who is also a former business associate of Paul Manafort’s.

Mueller’s team met with pollster Tony Fabrizio in February 2018, an interview that has not been previously reported and takes on new significance after Manafort’s attorneys revealed Tuesday that Mueller’s team is still interested in how Manafort shared polling data with his Russian intelligence-linked colleague.

CNN journalists observed Fabrizio leaving the special counsel’s office on the first of February last year and have since confirmed he was meeting with Mueller’s team. At the time, the special counsel had been digging into Manafort’s finances and political work ahead of his trial.

…

Fabrizio’s involvement with Mueller is intriguing because he’s one of the few people in Manafort’s orbit with knowledge of the inner-workings of the Trump campaign as well as Manafort’s Eastern European connections.

A veteran pollster and political strategist, Fabrizio worked on Ukrainian elections with Manafort and went on to serve as the Trump campaign’s chief pollster beginning in the spring of 2016.
A source familiar with the special counsel’s interest said Fabrizio’s interview included questions about his polling work for Manafort in Ukraine rather than his internal Trump campaign polling. It is not clear what other topics were broached in the interview or whether it solely focused on Fabrizio’s knowledge of Manafort’s business dealings.

The Justice Department initially asked Mueller to look into Manafort’s political ties in Ukraine because they may relate to other allegations of Russian coordination with the Trump campaign.

dragonfly9 · January 11, 2019, 2:27pm

This portion of the Mueller Investigation should be called…

Follow the Ukrainian

Serhiy Kivalov, a Ukrainian lawmaker known for pro-Russian initiatives
Serhiy Lyovochkin, attended the Liberty Ball
Mr. Artemenko, the former Ukrainian lawmaker,
And several other Ukrainians

Follow the US facilitators who helped the Ukrainians for hefty pay-offs

Flynn - former NSC head
Manafort, former T campaign chair
Sam Patten, who helped get tickets to the Inauguration and balls acting as a straw man, with ties to Killimnik
Michael Cohen, Former T lawyer and fixer
Felix Sater - Helped find properties in Russia for T to build

Serhiy Kivalov, a Ukrainian lawmaker known for pro-Russian initiatives, took photos of the dance, as well as of his coveted tickets and passes to the soiree where it took place, the Liberty Ball at the Walter E. Washington Convention Center, posting them on Facebook and declaring that “it was an honor” to attend.

He was one of at least a dozen Ukrainian political and business figures who made their way to Washington for the inauguration, several of whom attended the Liberty Ball. Most had more on their dance cards than just parties.

They attended meetings and orchestrated encounters at Trump International Hotel with influential Republican members of Congress and close allies of President Trump. Representing a range of views, including a contingent seen as sympathetic to Moscow, they positioned themselves as brokers who could help solve one of the thorniest foreign policy problems facing the new administration — the ugly military stalemate between Russia and Ukraine and the tough sanctions imposed on Moscow following its seizure of Crimea.

…

Evidence of the Ukrainians’ presence eventually prompted interest from the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, as he investigated Russian interference in the 2016 election, and has spawned a number of related inquiries by federal prosecutors. The investigations are playing out against growing indications that some of the Ukrainians who came to Washington for the inaugural, or their allies, were promoting grand bargains, or “peace” plans, that aligned with Russia’s interests, including by lifting sanctions.

…
Federal prosecutors have asked witnesses about how some of the Ukrainians gained access to inauguration events, whom they met with while they were in the United States, and what they discussed — including questions about various peace plan proposals — according to people with direct knowledge of the questions and others who were briefed on the interviews.

As recently as last month, prosecutors were asking witnesses about illegal foreign lobbying related to Ukraine. Another subject of questions has been whether foreigners from Ukraine and other countries used straw donors to disguise donations to the inaugural committee. Federal law prohibits foreigners from contributing to an inaugural committee, although they can attend events if Americans buy the tickets.

…

Mr. Manafort relayed a request to have Mr. Kilimnik pass the polling data to two Ukrainian oligarchs who had arranged or provided financing for Russia-aligned Ukrainian political parties for which Mr. Manafort had worked. One of the oligarchs, Serhiy Lyovochkin, attended the Liberty Ball,

…

…prosecutors made a move that was seen as signaling the continuing cooperation of Sam Patten, an American consultant who had worked with Mr. Kilimnik and Russia-aligned Ukrainians looking to build ties to the Trump administration.

…

Mr. Patten had pleaded guilty in late August to charges including funneling $50,000 in money from an unnamed foreigner who matched the description of Mr. Lyovochkin but was described in court papers only as “a prominent Ukraine oligarch” to buy tickets to exclusive Trump inauguration events for the oligarch, Mr. Kilimnik and someone described only as “another Ukrainian.”

…

“I have been interrogated twice by the F.B.I. and Mr. Mueller,” said Andrii V. Artemenko, who came to the inauguration as a Ukrainian member of Parliament bearing a peace proposal that was later criticized as pro-Russian.

Mr. Artemenko said he had testified before Mr. Mueller’s grand jury last summer…

Mr. Artemenko, the former Ukrainian lawmaker, said in an interview that he did not attend any inaugural balls or other events that required paid tickets. Instead, he said he watched Mr. Trump’s inaugural address, which was free, and met with various Republicans to discuss his peace plan, which would have lifted sanctions against Russia and which he said had some support from the Kremlin.

Days after the inauguration, Mr. Artemenko traveled to New York to discuss his peace plan with Michael D. Cohen, and former business partner of the president’s, Felix H. Sater, who had helped Mr. Trump scout deals in Russia.

Prosecutors also alleged that Patten formed a company with a Russian national to engage in lobbying and political consulting services on behalf of a pro-Russian party in the Ukraine.

The description of the Russian national matches that of Konstantin Kilimnik, a longtime associate of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort who prosecutors have alleged has ties to Russian intelligence.

Patten told prosecutors that he worked with Kilimnik to help route the illegal donation to Trump’s inauguration.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/schiff-says-house-intelligence-panel-will-examine-possible-foreign-funding-of-trumps-inaugural-committee/2018/12/14/723ea1da-ffe8-11e8-ad40-cdfd0e0dd65a_story.html?utm_term=.8d3b5bd04198

Pet_Proletariat · January 13, 2019, 7:53pm

Let’s talk about Deputy Attorney General, Rod Rosenstein, who will be stepping aside when Bill Barr nominates his own Deputy. He hasn’t been doing the job we think he been doing. I think I figured out why.

What we knew,

Rosenstein assumes office April 26, 2017.
Comey was fired May 9, 2017 using a document written by Rosenstein.
McCabe memos are written and Rosenstein “jokes about wearing a wire”, between May 9th and May 17th, 2017.
Rosenstein and McCabe begin the investigation into Obstruction of Justice May 9th and May 17th, 2017.
Rosenstein appoints Mueller to be Special Prosecutor May 17, 2017.
Rosenstein begins overseeing the criminal portion of the Mueller investigation.

We now know from The New York Times story that,

Agents and senior F.B.I. officials had grown suspicious of Mr. Trump’s ties to Russia during the 2016 campaign but held off on opening an investigation into him, the people said, in part because they were uncertain how to proceed with an inquiry of such sensitivity and magnitude. But the president’s activities before and after Mr. Comey’s firing in May 2017, particularly two instances in which Mr. Trump tied the Comey dismissal to the Russia investigation, helped prompt the counterintelligence aspect of the inquiry, the people said.”

We know that Rosenstein was a participant and witness to Trumps obstruction of Justice, having penned the memo giving Trump reason to fire FBI director James Comey.

It’s stands to reason that Rosenstein would not have been able to oversee an investigation that he both was a partial participant and a witness. So what does Acting FBI director Andrew McCabe do at the time? He has to create a secrect counterintelligence investigation within the FBI.

Why? Lawfare explains,

unlike the FBI, however, U.S. Attorneys do not have authority over counterintelligence investigations.

Rod Rosenstein may have never been overseeing the part of the investigation in which he was witness. The counterintelligence investigation may have alwaysbeen overseen by Mueller because Rosenstein was involved. That and Trump met with the Russian ambassador and shared classified information in the oval the day after Comey was fired. I think this also clears up why Trump went after McCabe in retribution.

Keaton_James · January 13, 2019, 12:04am

Not surprising.

dragonfly9 · January 13, 2019, 12:29am

Good job @Pet_Proletariat dissecting what Rosenstein’s role must have been during the ongoing Mueller’s investigation.

I get a little stuck on the fact Rosenstein, freshly hired from a DA’s job in MD, would help construct a letter that removes Comey with all the plausible reasons why T could. McGahn knew that this letter was wrong because it looked like obstruction of justice and canned the first version of it. The letter was re-written and the tacking on that T was not being investigated has always seemed like an obvious tell that T needs to make it seem like he’s always been free of any malfeasance having to do with Russia. But Rosenstein I know was upset that he was set up to have to write that ‘cover’ letter…when it was always T’s intention to fire Comey, he just needed a reason why.

I am super curious about the Rosenstein remark to get a wire put on T because Rosenstein thinks he is loony (yes, he is) but the way that story was leaked and the subsequent bargain that must have been created as a result is strange. Rosenstein was not fired at the revelation he requested (in jest?) that T be wired…and Rosenstein has kept his job even with that bit of news coming out.

But Rosenstein would still (I think) still have a hand in overseeing all the Mueller investigation, but you are right…he may only be in the counterintelligence area…and not the general search for criminality that Mueller’s main focus would be with Russia, and compliance within T’s campaign, the Russian hackers.

Couterintelligence is looking for quid pro quo…where T was bought or owned by the Russians. Was it via money-laundering of real estate, especially the T Tower deal and penthouse. and all the 30 yrs of relations that T has had with the Russians, or the more smarmy details re tapes and such at a hotel in Moscow during the Miss Universe pageant.

We are sure that there are intercepts…wonder what they have from SIGNIT?

I am curious too to think that maybe T is indeed already indicted. That maybe under seal…there are some that have suggested that.

Wonder what the Bill Barr confirmation questions will be like??? Can you recuse yourself from the Mueller probe…etc.

We keep nearing a precipice…and stay on the edge waiting for the next big item to drop.

And then we have the holy grail of all self-inflicted messes that T wants to die on…the wall and the government shutdown.

Some chips are going to fall, shoes are going to drop, and a heap of stuff is going to hit the fan this week…I HOPE.

dragonfly9 · January 13, 2019, 1:04am

What do we make of the hollowing out of the FBI their investigators, lawyers….obstruction of justice, voluntary retirements, retribution for deeds done or imagined.

James Comey - Head of FBI - fired
Andrew McCabe - Deputy Director of FBI - fired
Jeff Sessions - Head of DOJ - fired
Peter Stzrok - expert on Russia, let go because of his dalliances within the ranks w
Lisa Page - FBI investigator - resigned because of Peter Stzrok and remarks about t.
Jame Baker - FBI Lawyer - resigned
Bill Priestap - FBI Investigator/head of counterintelligence-Retires Dec 2018

Priestap was involved in the FBI’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election and whether Russians colluded with the Trump campaign, and he was also part of the bureau’s investigation into Clinton’s use of a private email server while she was secretary of State.

When Priestap leaves the FBI, there will be no high-ranking officials who were involved in both investigations left at the bureau, according to the Journal. *

Does this mean that Mueller’s work is done?? What does it mean in general?

Pet_Proletariat · January 13, 2019, 2:22am

I was stuck on Rosenstein and McCabe for the longest time. This explains the Rosenstein wearing a wire “joke” memos.

None of it made sense, why would Rosenstein oversee an FBI obstruction of justice case over a firing, for which he wrote the memo? Alsways seemed like he should have recused.

dragonfly9 · January 13, 2019, 9:21pm

Obama and Reagan’s meetings with Russian leader - Putin and Gorbachev, and several advisors nearby.

Compare and contrast

Trump%20Obama%20Putin !

Trump%20Reagan%3APutin

dragonfly9 · January 13, 2019, 9:45pm

When it becomes clear that the FBI may and probably does have intelligence that T has been acting favorably towards Russia, enough to open up a counterintelligence campaign, then we can assume that someone in the FBI thinks that something fishy is going on with T’s motives, actions with the Russians and we should be alarmed.

But that leaves the FBI open to claims it is part of a Deep State mission, and that the intelligence groups are perhaps unfairly targeting the President.

Many of us do believe that there has been ample evidence of T’s allegiances towards Russia…so what is the highly secretive FBI to do now? Is it via Mueller’s final reporting that we can know for sure, yes and no?

The FBI can not flip the president. They can not withhold security information from the President, but they can expose certain activities which by merely shedding light on them, it will render them unsuitable to use again.

Naturally, the president, as a U.S. citizen, cannot be removed from the country. Nor can the president, who is the country’s chief executive, be restricted from access to classified information or provided with falsified information. It also makes no sense to “flip” someone who is already in a position of public trust and has taken an oath to protect and defend the United States from foreign enemies. Merely monitoring the threat to collect intelligence on what foreign adversaries are doing is not an option, since the ultimate consumer of such intelligence is the president himself — which means whatever intelligence is collected could eventually be passed on to the president, who is also the target. At the same time, the possibility that the president is compromised by a foreign power is the ultimate national security threat: The awesome powers of the presidency, which include almost unfettered discretion in the realm of foreign affairs and intelligence operations, leaves open the potential for him to use those powers to advance the interests of a foreign adversary over those of the United States.

This leaves only one option for neutralization: exposure.

Exposing the activities of a foreign intelligence service renders them ineffective, since it removes plausible deniability, which is the hallmark of covert intelligence operations. It also reveals the sources and methods that a foreign power is using, forcing them to abandon the operation. Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III has already utilized this avenue by bringing criminal charges against 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies for a disinformation campaign on social media and against 12 GRU officers for hacking the Democratic National Committee’s emails. This alternative has its downsides: It allows our adversaries to know what we know, enabling them to up their game the next time. (The current aggressive attempts by Russia’s Internet Research Agency to compel discovery of Mueller’s sources and methods in court is an example of this tension.) But where the national security threat is severe, the need to stop the activity immediately can outweigh the costs.

dragonfly9 · January 13, 2019, 9:57pm

More evidence that members of former Presidential Foreign Affairs see that clearly there has always been Russian influence. And T is being played and a player in Putin’s orbit, and a ‘wannabe dictator.’

Stobe Talbott, (from wiki - American foreign policy analyst associated with Yale University and the Brookings Institution, a former journalist associated with Time magazine, and a diplomat who served as the Deputy Secretary of State from 1994 to 2001) writes this today for Politico.

On Friday, the New York Times revealed an FBI investigation whether Candidate Trump had colluded—the word he hates and denies—with Russians to help his campaign. The next day, the Washington Post probed into President Trump’s refusal to let his own government in on his sensitive conversations with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Among other developments, Congress has renewed calls for the State Department interpreter Maria Gross, the only other American present for Trump’s two-hour private meeting with Putin in Helsinki, Finland, to share what she knows about the contents of their discussion.

…

Whether he knows it or not, Trump is integral to Putin’s strategy to strengthen authoritarian regimes and undermine democracies around the world. This unprecedented aberration defiles what America stands for at home and abroad; it alienates and dispirits our allies; and—if it is allowed to persist—it will jeopardize our security.

…

Flash forward to the current administration.

Under Putin as a revanchist, Russia has reinstated four key ingredients of Soviet politics and geopolitics: the Iron Fist, the Big Lie, the expansion beyond Russian borders and the subversion of Western societies. He is giving another chance to a system that ended up on the ash heap of history in the last century because of its internal failures.

The Cold War is back with several new and ominous features. The tables have turned. Putin is on a roll. Strongmen in Europe are cloning themselves after him and with his help. Democracy is under stress if not crisis. So are regional and global institutions founded under the leadership of the U.S. after World War II, notably NATO and the integration of Western Europe. And then there’s the U.S.’s pullback from the Middle East, potentially leaving Russia the only major power in the region.

…

Trumpism is a godsend to Putin and a nightmare for governments in his sights—including Trump’s. The U.S. commander-in-chief is out of sync with his own administration, not to mention the government as a whole. Note his stubborn yearning to lift sanctions on Putin’s pet oligarchs.

Trump has an affinity for dictators—as he himself reportedly acknowledged only this week during a lunch with senators, “I don’t know why I get along with all the tough ones and not the soft ones.” He actually does know why: He’s a wannabe. He envies their unchecked power, use of intimidation and penchant for operating in secret, apparently because he doesn’t trust the advisers and agencies who work for him.

This weekend’s Post article zeroed in on the Trump-Putin “one-on-one” last July in Helsinki, without aides or note-takers. Gross, the State Department interpreter, was the only American other than Trump who knows what was said, and she is under wraps. Whatever Trump told his own staff afterward, it would be likely what he wants people to believe, especially if he is hiding something. Take his claim that he “couldn’t care less” if his conversation with Putin became public for what it is worth: nothing. What’s more telling was the smug look on Putin’s face and an uncertain one on Trump’s after the meeting.

Pet_Proletariat · January 13, 2019, 10:24pm

Day 120

1/ A White House official close to Trump is now a person of interest in the Russia probe. The senior adviser under scrutiny by investigators is someone close to the president, according to multiple sources, who would not further identify the official. Investigators are also interested in people who were previously part of the Trump campaign and administration, including Michael Flynn and former campaign chairman Paul Manafort. (Washington Post)

A small group of lawmakers known as the Gang of Eight was notified of the change in tempo and focus in the investigation at a classified briefing Wednesday evening, the people familiar with the matter said. Then-FBI Director James B. Comey publicly confirmed the existence of the investigation in March.

Justice Department spokeswoman Sarah Isgur Flores said, “I can’t confirm or deny the existence or nonexistence of investigations or targets of investigations.” An FBI spokesman declined to comment.

Rosenstein appoints Mueller to be Special Prosecutor May 17, 2017. This story is from May 19, 2017. This would have been around the time that the investigation shifted to a counterintelligence investigation. I wonder what the “Gang of Eight” were told in that meeting? We’re they told it was “a person close to the President” or have they known the real identity of this person all along? Where’s the congressional oversight?

dragonfly9 · January 13, 2019, 11:42pm

Good sleuthing @Pet_Proletariat

Yes, I wonder who is the ‘person of interest,’ could be…

I remembered there was the Russian born Boris Ephysten
who left the admin in March 2017. He lied repeatedly for T and was let go
March 2017.

And Michael Flynn left in Feb 2017, so that would have been too early.

Here’s another backgrounder on the timing of Comey’s firing and what the FBI was saying, or someone was leaking.

dragonfly9 · January 14, 2019, 1:37am

Am digging through a few googles, I found this Guardian article. It basically says that that besides the FBI/CIA being notified via Papadapoulis that Russians had intel on Hillary’s campaign, that the British were another group to alert the US that their intel was picking up conversations between the Russians and T 'n Co.

The Gang of Eight were tipped off via these sources Britiah intel via James Brennan/CIA. Steele Dossier would be another source later too.

Britain’s spy agencies played a crucial role in alerting their counterparts in Washington to contacts between members of Donald Trump’s campaign team and Russian intelligence operatives, the Guardian has been told.

GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.

Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.

The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence – known as sigint – included Germany, Estonia and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the US, UK, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.

Another source suggested the Dutch and the French spy agency, the General Directorate for External Security or DGSE, were contributors.

It is understood that GCHQ was at no point carrying out a targeted operation against Trump or his team or proactively seeking information. The alleged conversations were picked up by chance as part of routine surveillance of Russian intelligence assets. Over several months, different agencies targeting the same people began to see a pattern of connections that were flagged to intelligence officials in the US.

The issue of GCHQ’s role in the FBI’s ongoing investigation into possible cooperation between the Trump campaign and Moscow is highly sensitive. In March Trump tweeted that Barack Obama had illegally “wiretapped” him in Trump Tower.
…

Instead both US and UK intelligence sources acknowledge that GCHQ played an early, prominent role in kickstarting the FBI’s Trump-Russia investigation, which began in late July 2016.

One source called the British eavesdropping agency the “principal whistleblower”.

The Guardian has been told the FBI and the CIA were slow to appreciate the extensive nature of contacts between Trump’s team and Moscow ahead of the US election. This was in part due to US law that prohibits US agencies from examining the private communications of American citizens without warrants. “They are trained not to do this,” the source stressed.

“It looks like the [US] agencies were asleep,” the source added. “They [the European agencies] were saying: ‘There are contacts going on between people close to Mr Trump and people we believe are Russian intelligence agents. You should be wary of this.’

“The message was: ‘Watch out. There’s something not right here.’”

According to one account, GCHQ’s then head, Robert Hannigan, passed material in summer 2016 to the CIA chief, John Brennan. The matter was deemed so sensitive it was handled at “director level”. After an initially slow start, Brennan used GCHQ information and intelligence from other partners to launch a major inter-agency investigation.

In late August and September Brennan gave a series of classified briefings to the Gang of Eight, the top-ranking Democratic and Republican leaders in the House and Senate. He told them the agency had evidence the Kremlin might be trying to help Trump to win the presidency, the New York Times reported.

One person familiar with the matter said Brennan did not reveal sources but made reference to the fact that America’s intelligence allies had provided information. Trump subsequently learned of GCHQ’s role, the person said.

The person described US intelligence as being “very late to the game”. The FBI’s director, James Comey, altered his position after the election and Trump’s victory, becoming “more affirmative” and with a “higher level of concern”.

Comey’s apparent shift may have followed a mid-October decision by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (Fisa) court to approve a secret surveillance order. The order gave permission for the Department of Justice to investigate two banks suspected of being part of the Kremlin’s undercover influence operation.

According to the BBC, the justice department’s request came after a tipoff from an intelligence agency in one of the Baltic states. This is believed to be Estonia.

The Washington Post reported on Wednesday that the same order covered Carter Page, one of Trump’s associates. It allowed the FBI and the justice department to monitor Page’s communications. Page, a former foreign policy aide, was suspected of being an agent of influence working for Russia, the paper said, citing US officials.