I know…and don’t think I’m not every bit as disturbed as you & others are. WTF!
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Omar here. Semiretired teacher, traveling constantly between China, where I taught for 12 years (Philosophy, Literature, Writing, and of cours, spoken English) and the US (Buffalo,NY for friends, San Diego for family). Before that taught philosophy in NYC and South Carolina. Some online teaching now.
Trying to figure out how to talk to, to debate, to argue rationally with Trumpists. I met one in Nanjing, a colleague, Chinese. I asked how he knew what he claimed to, and explained carefully what I was looking, a process of reasoning, a single verifiable original source I could check out. He referred me to Breibart! I’ve just finished debating another (a Holocaust and moon landing denier, and much else besides!) on a Kant (German 19th century philosopher) listserve. I explained in Kantian terms that his suspicions of conspiracy didn’t amount to evidence, that possibility isn’t the same as actuality. I got nowhere. I’m here now.
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Welcome, you’re now among the sane.
The thing is, there’s no escaping the need to deal with these people. They are everywhere, and they will be around even if the idiot is voted out.
Right now we’re talking to our reflections. I appreciate that a forum like this teaches us how to use the tools of political organization available and yet to be imagined. But we need to figure out if these voters who are bypassed by our political organizing, can be made to budge through reasoning.
When they say fake news, we need to ask: which news in particular? How do you know it’s fake?What would convince you that its not fake? How did you actually arrive at this claim? How do you know that your source is true, that it too isn’t fake? We ask them for their method of judging in order to get them thinking, because I don’t think they actually know how to.
And if they turn it around, then we have to be able to answer. If We dont, and simply offer an alternative opinion for theirs, then it’s reasonable to ask: why we think ourselves to be the sane ones?
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Good point. Each side is deeply entrenched in their own belief system.
We all suffer from Confirmation Bias, or what could be known as living in our own echo chamber.
Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias,[Note 1] is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one’s preexisting beliefs or hypotheses.[1] It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs (From Wiki)
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Right. But creating the tools to actual overcome them is what I’m thinking hard on.
I’ve come to realize that as anti intellectual as Trump is, there is some sophistication and philosophical grounding in his approach. I heard Gingrich, a while back, use the language of postmodernism to describe what he and they are doing. One sees it in the notion of “alternative facts”, facts being what you say they are; there is no ultimate determinant of fact, no Big truth. So create your own, and get others to repeat them, and you win in the game for truth.
The paradox is that those who shaped such ideas- Nietzsche, and more recently Rorty, Judith Butler and many others, wouldnt want anything to do with these guys. But you destroy the traditional enlightenment icons- science, rational justification, Truth, and that may be what you get.
So how to combat ideas that are not without power, at least in their premises?! To be sure, the typical Trumpist is clueless to all this, but s/he is imitating his language, his method, and he is certainly instinctually attuned to hermeneutical control of the discourse. I want us to provide tools to reshape that discourse back to science and reason, and if not that, than to an alternative that I could be proud to identify with.
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Welcome! – Good thoughts – and let me say, you’ve come to the right place. @matt is right on your wavelength. He has built a remarkable platform here to help wage the war against “alternative facts.” Yes, there’s always more we can do, but this site provides a solid foundation and a powerful set of tools to help us spread the truth.
And now I’m going to make a shameless pitch to everyone reading this (BTW, I’m not part of the team who helps administer the site, I’m just a huge fan and frequent poster.) It’s absolutely crucial that we all support WTFJHT and spread the word. Everyone reading this should consider sending a link to the site in your emails and texts to friends and family. Link to the site on Twitter and Facebook, wherever you can. And really consider pledging your financial support at whatever level you can – the “Become a Member” link is at the top of the page at https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com.
to @matt and the whole WTFJHT team.
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That’s a real challenge when we’re dealing with so many who rely on “beliefs” and an anti-science bias in favor of “alternative facts”. 
What does the cat say?
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She says…”Somebody needs to bury that orange crap cuz it stinks”
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Hello!
My name is Sarah. I’m a registered nurse in Aurora, CO, working with adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities. I have a full time job planning and implementing support services and training caregivers at a residential agency, and I also work a few days a month doing direct care at a group home.
I have a great Pyrenees/Staffordshire terrier mix named Samwise, a Jack Russell/mini poodle mix named Tiki, and a husband name Tom. Fairly often we have a random third dog through Rover.
I enjoy road trips, hiking, beer, trivia, reading, movies, TV, napping, refurbishing/upcycling impulse buys from thrift stores, and many other things.
Twitter let me know last week I’ve been using it for 10 years now, so I guess you can follow me @sawaboof if you feel so inclined.
I’m excited to be part of this community and looking forward to some friendly, informative discussions!
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Hi, I’m Joan and not new to WTFJHT, just finally introducing myself. I’m a long time maternal/child, community, school nurse. I’ve been teaching nursing for ~40 years.
I live in the wonderful greater Bay Area with three cats and a dog. My daughter, aso a nurse, lives a few blocks from me with her partner and their dog.
Things I love to do are socialize with friends for theater, reading, Mah Jongg, dog classes (we do Canine Circus School for fun), knit, vaccine legislation, and travel.
WTFJHT is my late afternoon read and favorite news source.
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Hello everyone! I am tinker and am located in the upper Midwest. Artist, environmentalist and past activist who may be called to duty again. Am @snowshoehare on Twitter. Backgrounds include but not limited to: Fine arts, tech stuffs, community organizing, environmental and animal related issues and slumming around social media. Am motivated by knowledge in order to help enlighten others to action. Very excited to have found you!
♀
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I’m Andrew, the person behind TPFNewsDesk on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TPFNewsDesk
Glad to be a part of this community. Let me know what I can do to help out, @matt or anyone in the forum.
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Hi…I just joined. From Princeton NJ. Hoping for non-partisan dialogue.
But if this leans LEFT I will leave.
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Welcome. You should be aware that this forum consists of mostly left leaning members but we try our best to explore and post factual news reports from credible sources for our daily discussions. We typically do not post Opinion in the daily threads, as we like to concentrate on the known facts of the day. We do have some op-ed threads, mostly comprised of notable authors. I sent you this message, only because I didn’t want you to become upset by our personal opinions. This is a cruelty-free forum, no trolling or name calling allowed. If you’re here to discuss facts and policy, you’re in the right place.
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There’s no such thing as “non-partisan dialogue.” A conversation between people about how they feel about a particular cause is inherently biased. I think what you’re asking for is a place where topics will be fairly discussed based on their merit – regardless of personal prejudice – that’s free from emotional trolling and framing.
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In truth, I dont think it matters that they associate themselves with alternate facts or that they attach no importance to science. I think they’ve decided to go against facts and science and even common sense and basic self interest just because it will destroy all the things we value, to one extent or another: Democracy, the Enlightenment, Truth, science, pragmatism, fair play, freedom, the Constitution, and the Progress we’ve made in human decency and interaction.
What’s clear to me is there can no longer be any excuse for giving them the benefit of the doubt. That many of them may be stupid, badly educated, resentful, misunderstood, can no longer function as excuse. Many of them know better in any case. They are racists, maliciously evil, and out to destroy the country. And we need to face them that way.
Since we need to give the law and our vote every chance to redeem our basic institutions, we neednt go to civil war footing just yet, but that day may come. In the meantime, let’s do what we can. Let’s humiliate them publicly, by revealing their lies, their use of informal fallacy as their basic, their only tool of rhetorical adjudication. Let’s stand up to bullies by standing firm. End your friendships and relationships with Trumpists! There must be a cost for trying to destroy our country. When they make claims, demand to see their sources, and put it out there for all to see, and test. But demand also that they answer the following question: what would convince you that you are wrong? If they offer no falsifier to their claims, you know without doubt that they are after your epistemological and metaphysical destruction. If they do offer it, then show them.
Almost 550+ days! You can’t claim ignorance. It’s all there to see! And we are too well versed in the ways of the totalitarian personality. We don’t need to be lambs, we don’t need to wait for our destruction passively, as too many in our history did before because they couldn’t believe what humans were capable of. We know. Trumpists are morally filthy. Let’s tell them that, and let’s act on that now obvious fact.
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THAT is tough job! Nurses are the best. I had a great nurse during last surgery/hospitilzation and can say they really make the difference! I read here often and occassionally post.
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I think the only tools are those used by deprogramming for cults. Why rewrite the book? But that is what it looks like to me. Politics being emotional and hyjacked now as a cult of personality. I blame FOX.